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View Poll Results: Delivery of Source BEFORE payment?
Sure! Gotta have trust in the world! 0 0%
Put it in escrow with a lawyer! 4 40.00%
Hell no! You dont get nuthin until you pay up! 6 60.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 20th, 2006, 10:57 PM   #1
MisterPopularity
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vBgroups

So this guy hires me to write a module for vBulletin 3.5.4 AND vBgallery 1.0.2..... this module is a Yahoo! Groups clone and operates as such. The quote i gave was $2500.00 for the exclusive copyrights to the program and he sent in a $500 deposit.

The module is now complete and ready to install, and he wants me to send him the source BEFORE he pays the balance, and I said no way! I offered to send him an ionCube encoded, time expiring version to test on his own machine and he said no..

So the guy calls me all sorts of names, and attempts to chargeback his deposit (to no avail). I want everyones feedback... am I being unreasonable?

Thanks
Chris
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Old May 21st, 2006, 06:07 AM   #2
cryptkeeper
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first of all the deposit should have been 50%. secondly, there should ahve been a contract written up. you are not being unreasonable. you just made a couple of mistakes, you'll learn from them.
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Old May 21st, 2006, 07:30 AM   #3
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Sounds like a great project.
There are many people who have no honor on verbal agreements .

Yes, something on paper is a good practice for large jobs.
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Old May 21st, 2006, 08:57 PM   #4
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lesson learned!
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 12:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper
first of all the deposit should have been 50%. secondly, there should ahve been a contract written up. you are not being unreasonable. you just made a couple of mistakes, you'll learn from them.
For a $2,500 project, definitely! For smaller projects in the past (under $100) I usually just go by a verbal agreement because even if the person backed out I could just roll the code into a different project or release it out in the open but for larger projects a written contract that spells out who is to do what (& when) and a defined payment schedule is needed.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 12:55 PM   #6
Michael P
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Do you have a written contract with complete contact information? Nothing to stop him to booking with your work once he has the source if you don't have something in writing and a way to go after him if he doesnt pay.

Escrow is a reasonable alternative.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 07:01 PM   #7
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How long did it take you to proce sucha script?
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 07:21 PM   #8
Chuck S
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Hell No you dont get anything till you pay up this is my policy

On big jobs I collect 50% upfront but at no time do any completed jobs get released till payment is made.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 0ptima
How long did it take you to proce sucha script?
altogether? about 6 months. the hardest part was integrating it with PhotoPost and vBa Gallery 1.0.2 (to give each group its own gallery

I think i'm gonna run it through our friend, the ionCube encoder and PHP-Audit and license it out. the kiddies at vb.org HATE that, but too damn bad!
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterPopularity
altogether? about 6 months. the hardest part was integrating it with PhotoPost and vBa Gallery 1.0.2 (to give each group its own gallery

I think i'm gonna run it through our friend, the ionCube encoder and PHP-Audit and license it out. the kiddies at vb.org HATE that, but too damn bad!
Nice project

- I am testing out a few new things in the gallery.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 01:30 AM   #11
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thanks
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Old October 29th, 2007, 10:49 AM   #12
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There is some serious irony in all this eh Chris.

You jacked me for $200 and didn't deliver ANYTHING.

Original Thread


If people haven't noticed, i'm not even the same guy!!!

Nice handy work scammer!


For more details, feel free to PM me.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 11:12 AM   #13
Chuck S
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Standard legal accepted practice is 50% deposit with the other 50% being paid on delivery of the completed software. Of course you may specify any such policies you wish but get it in writing and get a signature then of course you have a legal contract and the person who is paying has no resource but to follow the legal contract. By the way any deposits are always legally NON REFUNDABLE should the client waste your time and not pay in the end.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 01:06 AM   #14
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Hi Chuck,

This guy has been stalking me for weeks now from board to board. I have my attorneys working on it since its an international libel case. I've made my screenshots of this thread, but can you delete his posts regarding me?

Thanks!
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Old October 30th, 2007, 08:13 AM   #15
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I had the same with Josh from iogames.com

He opened a very long thread at vb.org that he is searching for partners/programmers for a very big project and I made the failure to
trust on a persons word instead of asking to get something signed.

Lesson also learned. I can only warn everyone!

If I ever hear that he found someone new I will drop a note to that guy if I can.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLuerken View Post
I had the same with Josh from iogames.com

He opened a very long thread at vb.org that he is searching for partners/programmers for a very big project and I made the failure to
trust on a persons word instead of asking to get something signed.
NEVER trust these bums!!! They tend to live in a fantasy world where they are big fat-cat entreprenuers and coders are immigrant day labor. Yet, these people are too stupid to do anything on their own.

The only thing I can do with "niceguy" is file small claims suits here locally, separately for each and every derogatory post he makes. I'll ask for his domain name(s) as a mechanics lein (great thing here in massachusetts). And when he doesn't show up, I win by default, and I simply forward the court order to the registrar. I've never lost one of these cases
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Old October 30th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #17
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oh and back on the vBgroups topic. Ironically, i've made almost ten times what the original quote of $2,500.00 was. I've since retired the product and no longer sell it. I'm very happy to have recovered my costs ten times over
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Old October 31st, 2007, 10:40 AM   #18
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No I will not be deleting any posts nor will our company be getting involved with this issue. I did remove one post by him which meantioned a specific name in the post which would be libel. As far as him calling you a scammer above thats not libel but an opinion.

He has been warned to behave on this forum and this is a support site not a place to express frustration over something that does not involve our company or products.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 04:56 AM   #19
Joshua van Aalst
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I've had the opposite problem.

People say "No work until you pay". So I pay and then they don't deliver. Or deliver a fraction of what is required.

Now i do phased deliveries i.e.

Upfront deposit paid (about 25%).

Then payment after each phase is delivered.

I think that is the safest option for both parties.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 01:51 AM   #20
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can i just say Misterpopularity is a scammer and ripped me off for $250 which was half payment sent upfront for a $500 job.I have seen no work done and have recieved nothing from him and before he says it i am not a stalker.

Ive asked him nicely to return my funds to no avail as he is just sitting this one out hoping paypal sides with him.Im also unsure how he is doing it but he is managing to get my posts regarding this subject removed from vbull.org.
Seems i have no platform to complain about this guy......

Here is my thread regarding this subject but it has had quite a few posts removed by request of Misterpopularity.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=171359

Please do not delete as this will be my last post on this forum regarding this subject but i felt i had to reply here as MP started the orginal thread complaining about someone trying to rip him off.

Last edited by lasto; March 22nd, 2008 at 01:56 AM.
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