Contests: restricting number of images that may be submitted

[jdougher]

Originally Posted by Chuck S

Jdougher no piece of software is going to operate exactly as you wish that is why people modify software. Just because something does not work the way you wish does not mean it is deficient. It simply means it was not designed how you want it.

Look, all I'm saying is that a fundamental rule of MOST contests (if not all) is that entries are limited to a certain number per contestant. So any software that purports to provide contest functionality should provide a way for the admin to limit the number of entries.

Your software's contest functionality is really just a minor variation on the category concept. You've thrown in the ability to vote on the contents of a category and the ability to sort by rating (although I cannot get the latter functionality to work). The requirements of the actual running of contests in the real world were not adequately thought out--and certainly not adequately implemented. I'm taking the time to help you out by pointing out the deficiency. You are spending your time not listening to me but defending the way your software currently works and deflecting criticism. This is neither good customer service nor a way of tracking legitimate issues with your software so that improvements can be made.

My pointing out the deficiencies in your "contest" functionality is really not an articulation of how I want something to work. It is an articulation of the way contests are typically run.

[taylorpiano]

I have our PP set globally that no one can upload more than 4 per day but let them know that only 2 entries per week to the contest. I don't moderate the photos posted by approving them. That would take too much time. 97% of the members do upload only 2.

I don't use PP for voting since I can't see who votes for what image. Under the previous ownership, 2003-2009 there were members creating multiple ids, sending out mass mailings telling their friends to create id's for the sole purpose to vote.
Knowing the past history, I have decided as new owners since Dec 2009 to do my voting as polls in vBulletin. I choose 6 images for each of the 6 categories as finalists each week. Members vote and no one can see the count of the votes until we close the voting at the end of the week,

Would be great if those of us that use PP and vB to run our contest sites have a separate forum where we could compare ideas on ways to better use the software available to us

[jdougher]

Originally Posted by taylorpiano

I have our PP set globally that no one can upload more than 4 per day but let them know that only 2 entries per week to the contest.

Thanks, but this is not a solution. We have no limitations on gallery uploads. These are--and should be--separate from contests.

I appreciate your comment, but I'm look for a true solution.

[Chuck S]

Johnny

I can not offer a solution on something that simply is not a bug in the software. I do not beleive no one has said that the contest functionality could not be expanded upon in the future if the developer chooses to get into that. I can tell you it would be nowhere in the near future since the roadmap for PP8 is going to be all about UI. How it works has been explained previously. I fixed the one true bug in the contest feature which was a sort issue discussed elsewhere. Other than that all I can do is say this is how it works. If you want it to work some other way than that is up to you to hack or mod software.

[Steve_UK]

Originally Posted by taylorpiano

I don't use PP for voting since I can't see who votes for what image. Under the previous ownership, 2003-2009 there were members creating multiple ids, sending out mass mailings telling their friends to create id's for the sole purpose to vote.

TP,

A few thoughts for you on that.

Firstly you can see exactly who votes for what. Normally it is not shown on most systems but to review the voting and check for cheating I just change the setting "Display ratings that have no comments attached?" to YES. I can then see who cast every vote. I change it back as soon as I have checked things out.

In our competitions we say the voting will help us decide the winners, we don't say who gets most votes wins and when we declare a winner we actually wipe all the votes as we do that, and at the same time turn on the ability to then post standard comments under the photos in that area.

This means that now and then, if we see someone who clearly has the same friends voting for them in each competition or something else dodgy going on, we simply award the prize to the most deserving entry.. ie perhaps the entry with the most unrelated folks voting for it etc.

The other thought is that in theory you can switch on and off whether members at the new joiner usergroup level can vote or not, it is a category setting under "These checked usergroups can vote in this category".

I hope the thoughts are helpful.

Steve

[Chuck S]

Yes steve most people hide the empty comments on a photo for sure.

[taylorpiano]

Hi Steve, thanks for the info. Been busy with our website upgrade to vB4.1
I didn't know the voting in PP had the option to show who voted. But that I am assuming is viewable by everyone?
I also don't want members to see the count of votes per photo.
I think I tried to create a new member category and not allow them to vote. Thing is, once those members begin to enter photos into the weekly contest, I then tag them a my "active contest participant" which does have access to vote.
By created the acp cat, it allows me to send quick mass mailers via vB to just those members who participated in the contest the past 2 years instead of having to send a contest related message to all 10,000 members, it only goes out to the smaller list

[Steve_UK]

>> Hi Steve, thanks for the info. Been busy with our website upgrade to vB4.1

We are on VB 4.xx too..tisn't bad once you get everything how you want it.

>> I didn't know the voting in PP had the option to show who voted. But that I am assuming is viewable by everyone?

..yes... which is why I explained that I turn it on and off when I want to look at it. If for some reason it is vital to you not to show others who voted I guess you'd do it at a quiet time and maybe even click to close your PP system briefly while you checked things out.

Another invisible way to check it would be via the database directly of course.

>> I also don't want members to see the count of votes per photo.

I'm surprised you say that, all of our members see the number of votes per photo and that is fine by us. How are you preventing it? For logged in members normally the system hides the number until you vote of course, and then shows it after you vote. You can just log out and see them all though anyway.

>> I think I tried to create a new member category and not allow them to vote. Thing is, once those members begin to enter photos into the weekly contest, I then tag them a my "active contest participant" which does have access to vote.

Using usergroups, the on/off voting facility in the contest system, and the category systems for allowing voting or not allowing it by usergroup you can do whatever you want with respect to that.. and it is simply up to you how you plan it all out.

Most systems probably won't want new joiners allowed to vote as it really does invite cheating...where only established users voting is likely to be much more 'real' and meaningful.

>> By created the acp cat, it allows me to send quick mass mailers via vB to just those members who participated in the contest the past 2 years instead of having to send a contest related message to all 10,000 members, it only goes out to the smaller list

I have to admit I never mass mail our members. I'm not a fan of emails to members in general. Again it is totally up to you how you set that up and using the powerful search systems in VB you can choose out folks by all sorts of criteria. We have extra fields on our system so we can even sort folks out by camera type and things like that.

Nice to chat to you anyway.

All the best from London,

Steve

[Geiri]

I have often asked that the contest option would be worked on, in the suggestion forum.

See this post, one of few..
http://www.photopost.com/forum/photo...st-option.html

Please reply there to show support and ask for what you would see done.

[taylorpiano]

my restrictions per say by usergroup keeps defaulting back to 0 meaning no limits.
I think this is at least the 3rd time I've had to go in and change all the groups from 0 to what we allow on a daily basis.
I went to PhotoPost UserGroup Editor and gave each group either 2/pd up to 4/pd then hit save.
I see it there now, but the same thing was done in the past and it seems to reset itself to 0 somewhere down the line. I don't do anything to change it, it just happens. I notice it when one particular user when they log in, uploads 8 in one day. I thought he was uploading 4 before midnight, and 1 min later after midnight, uploading 4 more. Come to find all defaults went back to 0

any idea why this could be happening?

[Chuck S]

There is no code that is going to reset usergroup settings since those are stored in the database usergroups table. An admin would need to change them physically

The only way it could happen on its own is if your server is restoring database backups from earlier versions.

Just my thoughts since I know how the code works.

[taylorpiano]

hmm, I asked my Steve and he said he doesn't think the server was restoring db backups. I sure hope not, because I'm also keeping track of their wins via profile fields I created that I update manually every Monday night right before we announce the weekly winners. I just check the user groups again, so far its set with my correct limits. I'll try to remember to check it every couple days to see if it changes back to 0 again.

[taylorpiano]

for Steve UK, sorry I missed your question to me about seeing how many votes per photo.
If the votes are for a contest, them members seeing the votes during the contest is not good. The previous owner of the website we now own, allowed us to see the vote counts at least the 1st couple years. Members used to play games with the voting. If they saw one photo winning, they used to vote on the ones that were not winning. Some were telling their friends they only needed so many votes to win and to please create an account to vote for them. Serious photographers do not want that type of voting. They'd much rather have it hidden until the end of the week.
For that reason is why we use a forum post for voting on the contests

[Chuck S]

Taylor yeah the only functionality in our application to change usergroup permissions is in the admin edit usergroups function which means only an admin can change them otherwise whatever values you set are stored in the database. So it can not automatically change back.